The Next Super Smash Bros. Opzioni

[Dax]

Ho fatto un topic a parte (UFFICIALE) visto che stanno uscendo già delle news, che riassumo.

Sono stati annunciati uno Smash per Wii u e uno per 3DS.

- è stato fatto passar un po' di tempo perché Iwata pensava non fosse giusto chiedere a Sakurai di fare un altro Smash Bros per 3DS subito dopo Brawl (poteva chiederlo a qualcun altro? ihihihi).
- lo staff di Project Sora sarà coinvolto in Smash appena finito Kid Icarus... senza averlo saputo prima (finalmente persone qualificate che sanno cosa sia il bilanciamento)
- Sakurai dice che aggiungere solo grafica personaggi e stage non sarà sufficiente (inb4 "modalità kart")
- Iwata e Sakurai concordano sul fatto che inserire un elemento di crescita del personaggio rovinerebbe il gioco (fiu)
- Sakurai would like to see players build up their character on 3DS and then take them over to Wii U to show off (non la traduco)
- su Wii U si potrebbe arrivare a 60fps ( Tekken 6 lo fa, sto immaginando melee a 60 fps )
- la versione per 3DS offrirà un'esperienza di gioco leggermente diversa. In particolare:
- 1) gli piacerebbe che ci sia un qualche tipo di cooperazione tra giocatori 2) che ci siano più "rewards" eventualmente trasportabili sull'altra versione
- nonostante Sakurai abbia supervisionato personalmente in passato alcune aree come il bilanciamento del gioco e la forza dei personaggi questa volta spera di farlo fare allo staff ()
- ha infine avvisato che se non troverà il giusto staff (?) per fare il gioco, se ne farà una versione sola o ci vorranno 5 anni (eh bhe col 3DS alla fine della sua corsa, ok dude)

imho farà un casino e diventerà un party game

[Melt]

Quali personaggi volete nel nuovo SSB??????????????????????

[Ote]

Iwata asks

- Sakurai is using his experience working with Kid Icarus 3DS to smooth the development process of 3DS smash. Mentions he would randomly think about Smash during Kid Icarus development

- "While I'm sure some people just want a new DX (Melee) or X (Brawl), that is not the answer I'm looking for"

- There's a lot of implied differences between the 3DS and WiiU versions. The issue of limitations (or lack thereof) come up ("I could make 50 characters, or double the stages, or make everything prettier (graphically), but with the WiiU I don't have to choose just one of those options"), while he runs into that problem with the 3DS, "maybe something fun like the original smash bros." adding something about a handicap.

- 3DS version will be more "personalized" than the WiiU version, as most likely the handheld machine will only be played by one person. This regards "personal data and achievements." He's probably referring to the stat-keeping mode the Smash games have had and how a handheld version would most likely only be tracking a single person's stats.

- Sakurai feels conflicted, saying something to the effect of "On one hand, a player feels a great sense of accomplishment by beating something really difficult. On the other, if it's too hard, they'll feel a sense of frustration by constantly losing to it." (implied differences between versions)

- Iwata goes on to add that a handheld experience is typically a "fun experience in a short amount of time," and that adjustments would have to be made to work around that.

- "So, for the 3DS version, since you must enjoy it alone, it has a system of rewards that you can customize your character with. And then you can bring these characters from the 3DS to the WiiU to fight on. So one "individual" on a handheld will appear in the "stadium" of the home console." Iwata summarizes by saying "The 3DS version is where players will earn individual achievements for themselves, while the WiiU version will be a place to show those achivements off"

- Sometime late in the Melee development cycle, Iwata told Sakurai "you can never have enough Smash Bros!," to which Sakurai replied "YES YOU CAN." Sakurai apparently doesn't remember this.

- Iwata mentions that he likes how in Smash, both high level and beginner level players can feel a sense of accomplishment in comparison to other fighting games. If you don't know what you're doing in other fighting games, you'll typically get destroyed, in Smash you can earn a few more hits. Sakurai adds onto that saying "You'd think it'd be natural to help new players improve, but when the goal of a fighting game is to beat your opponent down, that becomes difficult." Iwata "feels helpless and weak when he loses badly," and lastly Sakurai adds that "the 3DS version will have ways to help beginner players," going on to suggest co-op "There will be a reward system for good players helping bad ones"

- Apparently the balancing and rebalancing of characters was entirely up to Sakurai, but he's going to ask for some help from other members of the team this time around. He still feels the creator of the game will have the clearest vision of how the balance should look like, but definitely welcomes the help. Iwata asks what type of balancing he's referring to, and Sakurai responds talking about balancing animation/frame/hitbox data, while making sure it makes sense in the scope of the game. It has to "look natural and feels good to land the attack"

- There's implied distinction between casual and competitive play made by Sakurai, saying "all these claims of 'this character is too strong' or 'this character is too weak' varies from person to person." When he looked at the sets of data from Wifi games, all characters had relatively the same level of success. "However, according to the competitive scene, that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere."

- A balance regarding the difficulties of surgical balance changes, and how they don't want characters to "feel the same," adding that specific traits/strengths/weaknesses are intentionally built to differentiate characters. Along with the "oh now that we nerfed this, this other thing is broken," etc. Iwata comments that this type of balancing is ridiculously hard and congratulates Sakurai for pulling it off with every single character by himself.

- Sakurai mentions that while new developers might see this initially as a learning opportunity, it'll eventually turn into a lesson of pain.

- More commentary regarding the extreme level of difficulty regarding balance vs uniqueness in a fighting game cast, with Iwata joking that "I knew I had an eye for talent when I picked you"

- Sakurai comments "the mechanics of a game better fit the system the game is on." The 3DS's small screen, for example, is something they have to work around, making sure the backgrounds and stage structure are clearly visible.

- Iwata comments that some designers enjoy gimmicks like FMVs and cutscenes, because it's where developers get the most free reign to show off their skills.

- Sakurai mentions "I think it'd be best if we can design something that works well and looks good regardless of whether it's on a portable or on an HDTV, but having a different team for each version is also good because we can still make very specialized additions to each." Each individual project will take advantage of each developers "specialty and where they're most likely to apply it."

- Essentially boiling down to "while keeping coherence between the two version is important, they don't want to use that as an excuse to compromise potential features for either version"

- Apparently Sakurai had no direct involvement with either Sonic's or Link's implementation in Brawl.

- He's slightly concerned by the fact that the various branches of Brawl staff worked on different schedules so the development process has gotten rather long. Iwata asks "but now you get to be a lot more hands-on with Smash 4, right?" to which Sakurai answers "Yes, but I'm coming into development right after Kid Icarus finishes, with no rest inbetween. So any help I can get is much appreciated"

- Sakurai says as a game designer and head developer, he really enjoys making something himself and seeing it turn into something good, but if he takes it in the wrong direction he won't reach the people he intends to. With Smash he wants to reach out to as many as he can. Iwata comments "this leaves a lot up to chance when it comes to the finished game," but Sakurai responds "I prefer it to a "stable" series where every sequel is juts the same game with a little bit added on. While it's painful to make something new, it's fun to figure out how." While with Smash, each iteration has a different fun twist, and even someone who doesn't know much about the series can pick apart the differences fairly easily.

- Iwata anguishes over how expensive the project is and that it requires a lot of people.

- Sakurai "Anyway, I look forward to the people you bring to this project, since the success of it is dependent on who you gather for me! Still, even if you don't gather enough people, I wouldn't want to see the project stretched thin, so we could focus on only one system." Iwata: "What? Even after we announced at e3 that we'll be developing for both systems?!" Sakurai: "Well either that or I take a small team and we take five years"

- in the conclusion, Iwata thanks Sakurai, and Sakurai says "thanks, but my time is currently focused on making sure Kid Icarus is perfect for launch!"

[Melt]

Letto un paio di cose

bella merda

[Suor Genoveffa]

Quindi lui ha sempre fatto il bilanciamento?

No ma complimenti, hai fatto un ottimo lavoro. Avrà bisogno di più di qualche mano.

[Lonzo]

Boh, secondo me parlano, parlano, ecc., ma alla fine tutti questi discorsi riguarderanno le parti di Smash che meno ci interessano (tipo l'emissario del Subspazio). Sicuramente la nostra solita modalità di gioco No Items, Fox Only, ecc. ecc. ci sarà.

Avremo un nuovo Brawl come minimo (e a me sta già bene), ma con un po' di fortuna qualcuno degli sviluppatori avrà letto le critiche dei giocatori più esigenti, e proporrà di velocizzarlo o di inserire qualcosa che, pur non alterando la semplicità di fondo, dia più spessore al gioco competitivo.

[Manux Prower]

- "While I'm sure some people just want a new DX (Melee) or X (Brawl), that is not the answer I'm looking for"

Suona come una minaccia

- 3DS version will be more "personalized" than the WiiU version, as most likely the handheld machine will only be played by one person. This regards "personal data and achievements." He's probably referring to the stat-keeping mode the Smash games have had and how a handheld version would most likely only be tracking a single person's stats.

Sembra un pò pretestuosa come connettività

- Sakurai feels conflicted, saying something to the effect of "On one hand, a player feels a great sense of accomplishment by beating something really difficult. On the other, if it's too hard, they'll feel a sense of frustration by constantly losing to it." (implied differences between versions)

He sucks. Badly.

- Iwata goes on to add that a handheld experience is typically a "fun experience in a short amount of time," and that adjustments would have to be made to work around that.

Questo è quello che pensa lui, ho visto fantastiche esperienze su console portatili con una longevità alta e stimolante. Se poi lui pensa solo al Super Mario che finisci in poche sessioni è un altro discorso °°

- "So, for the 3DS version, since you must enjoy it alone, it has a system of rewards that you can customize your character with. And then you can bring these characters from the 3DS to the WiiU to fight on. So one "individual" on a handheld will appear in the "stadium" of the home console." Iwata summarizes by saying "The 3DS version is where players will earn individual achievements for themselves, while the WiiU version will be a place to show those achivements off"

Perché 'alone'? Sembra che non voglia mettere il multiplayer online... Non può essere così stupido vero? Ditemi che parla di 'alone' in senso fisico di presenza nella stanza (e anche lì comunque si recuperebbe con il -DUH- multiplayer wireless). Inoltre mi sembra sempre più pretestuoso questo sistema di achievement trasferibili, una connettività un pò forzata

- Iwata mentions that he likes how in Smash, both high level and beginner level players can feel a sense of accomplishment in comparison to other fighting games. If you don't know what you're doing in other fighting games, you'll typically get destroyed, in Smash you can earn a few more hits. Sakurai adds onto that saying "You'd think it'd be natural to help new players improve, but when the goal of a fighting game is to beat your opponent down, that becomes difficult." Iwata "feels helpless and weak when he loses badly," and lastly Sakurai adds that "the 3DS version will have ways to help beginner players," going on to suggest co-op "There will be a reward system for good players helping bad ones"

Quando parla di tutti questi buoni sentimenti, evidentemente si dimentica di questo

- Apparently the balancing and rebalancing of characters was entirely up to Sakurai, but he's going to ask for some help from other members of the team this time around. He still feels the creator of the game will have the clearest vision of how the balance should look like, but definitely welcomes the help. Iwata asks what type of balancing he's referring to, and Sakurai responds talking about balancing animation/frame/hitbox data, while making sure it makes sense in the scope of the game. It has to "look natural and feels good to land the attack"

- There's implied distinction between casual and competitive play made by Sakurai, saying "all these claims of 'this character is too strong' or 'this character is too weak' varies from person to person." When he looked at the sets of data from Wifi games, all characters had relatively the same level of success. "However, according to the competitive scene, that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere."

Da questo uso di 'competitive' si capisce perfettamente come Sakurai non abbia minimamente idea del circuito competitivo o sbaglio? Specie sui personaggi

- Sakurai comments "the mechanics of a game better fit the system the game is on." The 3DS's small screen, for example, is something they have to work around, making sure the backgrounds and stage structure are clearly visible.

Thank you captain obvious

- Essentially boiling down to "while keeping coherence between the two version is important, they don't want to use that as an excuse to compromise potential features for either version"

?

[Dax]

- There's implied distinction between casual and competitive play made by Sakurai, saying "all these claims of 'this character is too strong' or 'this character is too weak' varies from person to person." When he looked at the sets of data from Wifi games, all characters had relatively the same level of success. "However, according to the competitive scene, that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere."

COME CAZZO SI FA
THE
WIFI
DATA

CIOè

NO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NON è UN PARAMETRO MASAHIRO, CHE CAZZO VUOL DIRE

varies from person to person. Oh sicuramente, solo che ci sono i noobs e chi conosce il gioco, fine della distinzione

[IL Link]

cioè ha valutato i personaggi in base hai combattimenti on-line? in realtà è già molto che lo abbia fatto, peccato che non credo che molta gente intelligente abbia giocato online con quela qualità del cazzo

[Dax]

cioè ha valutato i personaggi in base hai combattimenti on-line? in realtà è già molto che lo abbia fatto, peccato che non credo che molta gente intelligente abbia giocato online con quela qualità del cazzo

No, no lol per fortuna non è arrivato a tanto.
Ma ha detto che per chi fruisce il gioco in maniera casual tanto dirà che un personaggio piuttosto che un altro è più forte. E che guardando quindi i match Wifi (parametro casual, almeno qui ce la fa pure lui) le cose sono equilibrate. Tuttavia non è così nella scena competitiva.
Il punto è: ma che cazzo di parametro è? Cosa c'entra? E' come dire "per mia nonna che non ci vede il wii è potente come la ps3". Quindi comunque una fetta di gamer non vedono il gioco in maniera disequilibrata. Eh bhe, utile, mi pare un buon parametro da tenere in considerazione.

[Rybaia]

imho farà un casino e diventerà un party game

è una provocazione?

[MCT]

- Apparently the balancing and rebalancing of characters was entirely up to Sakurai, but he's going to ask for some help from other members of the team this time around. He still feels the creator of the game will have the clearest vision of how the balance should look like, but definitely welcomes the help. Iwata asks what type of balancing he's referring to, and Sakurai responds talking about balancing animation/frame/hitbox data, while making sure it makes sense in the scope of the game. It has to "look natural and feels good to land the attack"

Ecco Sakurai che si appresta a delineare le caratteristiche di Ganondorf

imho farà un casino e diventerà un party game

Wait wat

imho farà un casino e diventerà un party game

What is this I don't even

Messaggio modificato da MCT il 11 Jun 2011, 19:28

[Rybaia]

Ecco Sakurai che si appresta a delineare le caratteristiche di Ganondorf

Non per difenderlo, ma nemmeno io saprei dove metter mano per ribilanciarlo visto com'è messo.

[Cirno The Baka]

Mah, bilanciare è una parola grossa specialmente per un gioco come smash.
Non credo verrà mai fuori qualcosa di bilanciato, ma a me basterebbe avere una buona porzione di pg giocabili e che il gameplay possa arrivare a un livello decente, e con decente intendo "brawl or better"

[Giob]

Ah, perché Smash non è un party game?